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Nova Kozmologija U D&d

Rasprava u 'Mač i Magija' pokrenuta od josephbt, 17. Rujan 2007..

  1. josephbt

    josephbt Novi Član

    linky http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=1...amp;postcount=5

    Sorry for the long delay, but it's been a crazy week. I got back from GenCon on Sunday the 19th and took Monday off (we normally get a day off after a weekend-eating show). This past weekend I took my family down to the Oregon coast and spent three days in Pacific City, just to get in one last little breath of summer before school starts up again for the girls. Going to the beach out here does not involve much swimming, since the water is icy cold and often has dangerous rip currents. It's more about building sand castles, flying kites, and maybe reading a book.

    Anyway, let me tell you what I've been up to since GenCon. In a word: monsters. The writing team (that's me, James Wyatt, Bruce Cordell, and Chris Sims) is working on fleshing out the Monster Manual entries and doing a bit of a "story" pass on the monsters. Last week I spent a couple of days working on devils. Here are a couple of devilish tidbits I'll leak for now:

    - Devils are angels who rebelled. They rose up against the deity they served and murdered him. The crime of deicide is unimaginably perverse for angels, and hence devils were cursed and imprisoned in the Nine Hells.
    - The Nine Hells are what became of the murdered deity's divine realm after his death. The Hells are the devils' prison, and it is difficult for them to get out without mortal aid.
    - We've re-sorted demons and devils a bit, since we want these two categories of monsters to make a little more sense. Devils tend to be more humanoid in form, usually fight with weapons, and often wear armor. Most have horns, wings, and tails. One consequence of this: the erinyes and the succubus were holding down pretty similar territory, so we've decided that they're the same monster, called the succubus, and it's a devil.
    - Ice devils don't look like other devils. We've decided that they are actually a demonic/yugoloth race... one that was entrapped by Mephistopheles long ago in an infernal contract. So ice devils hate other devils, retain their insect-like appearance, and have a special loyalty to Mephistopheles. It's one of the reasons why Asmodeus has never chosen to move against Mephistopheles. Asmodeus would of course win if he did, but that would let the ice devils out of their contract.

    Anyway, that's the sort of stuff us story guys are working on. More later!

    dakle, 30 godina jedne kozmologije u wc. nije da mi je bila super okay, al bas SVE redizajnirat?? i na koji nacin?

    d&d je panteisticka igra. uistinu ima svega. ali odjednom, vragovi su krscanski? kak sad to?
    i nema vise Pit Fienda?
  2. Dremora

    Dremora Kreegah Bundolo

    Issati. Kako loše! Šta je falilo ovome do sada????!!

    Sve je funkcioniralo baš kako treba, devili i demoni, i njihova zavada mi je uvijek bila jedna od najboljih priča, a kako su nastali Nine Hellsi mi je bilo posve prihvatljivo. Ok, mogao bih progutati da je Succubus Devil, ali ovo drugo je sve totalno SMEĆE. Šta će onda biti demoni? Devili, samo više nagnuti Chaosu???!!
    Koji utter bullshhit.

    Još ovo, da vragovi nemogu van pakla, bez mortal aida. To može imati nekakvog smisla, ali je isto tako pomalo glupo, vidim da će sada vragovi potpisivati Faustain Pact, a ne mortali :cry:.

  3. Exxar

    Exxar Fantasy-Hr Urednik

    j♥♥esh devile i demone.

    Succubus je Tanar'ri. Pit fiend je Baatezu. Baatezui nastanjuju Baator (mortalima poznat kao pakao), a Tanar'rii nastanjuju Abyss.

    Nije da mi se ne sviđa ovakav nastanak pakla, no crap o devilima i demonima umjesto o Baatezuima i Tanar'riima je bullshit. Naravno, stari nastanak svega je puuuuno bolji.

    Staces, jednom ak ti se Planescape svidi nista drugo sto tretira istu stvar u D&D-ish fantasy settinzima ti nemre bit dobro.

    Mda, bas me zanima sta ce sad prosrat o Yugolothima. Ako ih kompletno ne izbace.
  4. Black_Raven

    Black_Raven drevni hejter

    @4th edition D&D:



    zbilja katastrofalno :)))
  5. Tyronius Mook

    Tyronius Mook Sundryan Dungeon Master

    Baš zbog ovakvih gluposti je u mom svijetu (Sundrya) u kojem uvijek igram svoje kampanje moja custom kozmologija, koja naravno nema veze ni sa jednom svijetskom religijom, (barem se trudim da nema), no doduše slici malo Tolkienovoj..

    Taj svijet je dosta drukčiji, a igraci rijetko opće skuže razliku jer ih se malo opce bakće "vecim stvarima od njih samih", pa je među playerima to uglavnom nepoznato jer se nitko nije potrudio nauciti..
  6. echo64

    echo64 Novi Član

    Da stvarno ljudi. Nije koda morate koristit tu kozmologiju. Ja u svojim igrama uvjek nes sceprkam tak da mi je svejedno.
    I ono uvjek sam bio onak na strani Nine Hells sto se sveg tog tice tak da ideja o humanoidnim devilima skorz pase.
    Zapravo se iskreno nadam da ce napravit pakao malo vise goticki i mracno a ne cartoon-like.
    Mislim na kraju cekam 4th da vidim kaj su napravili sa sistemom i igrivosti a ne radi nekih Core Setting pricica.
  7. josephbt

    josephbt Novi Član


    more bollocks, i to posebno uber krscanskih stvari. j♥♥emu sve, ocemo li dobiti takve preinake za sve zivo? oni gube vrijeme na fluff koji je jako orjentiran na pravu svjetsku religiju.
    umjesto da se posvete mehanici, jer ovako i onako svi igraci svoje neke elemente u D&D gurnu, tako da nemamo opet wizzarde lvl11 koji imaju Infinite Wishes(phb261) ili druide, clerice i wizze koji Balor Mining(phb277) rade ili takva nekakva infinite stuff sranja.
  8. Mithrandir

    Mithrandir Aktivan Član

    Trazi neki login...
  9. josephbt

    josephbt Novi Član

    darn, pizdeki iz wotc. evo onda quote.
    In the real world, "demon" is synonymous with "devil." "Abyss" and "hell" have a similar relationship. D&D designers have struggled with these facts since 1977 when the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game depicted demons and devils, the Abyss and the Nine Hells. The original basis for the division was alignment. Aligned planes existed to provide a meaningful afterlife for similarly aligned characters, and a need to fill those planes with natives resulted in demons being distinct from devils. As the game evolved, the original division remained, but too many similarities persisted. The advent of 4th Edition lets us accentuate the differences between the two primary species of fiends.

    Throughout demons' and devils' existence in the D&D game, resemblances between them have been stronger and more numerous than differences. Both species are extraplanar forces of evil that seek souls to supplement their numbers. Each breed has wretched and implike creatures at the bottom of the hierarchy and godlike archfiends at the top. Each member of both species has a wide array of similar (and often superfluous) supernatural powers. Most demons and devils are superior to members of typical PC races in every way, including incredible intelligence. Their purposes in the material world have always been similar.

    In the original AD&D Monster Manual, Gary Gygax admitted that devils “somewhat resemble the demons both in their characteristics and abilities.” AD&D 2nd Edition kept the planar structure of the original game. Demons and devils became tanar’ri and baatezu, respectively, but little made them distinct other than their categorical names. Only a conflict called the Blood War kept them from overrunning the material world. However, this evil-on-evil fight didn’t expand the possibilities for typical D&D play. On the contrary, the Blood War brought the motivations and hierarchy of demons and devils closer together. The 3rd Edition of D&D retained so many of 2nd Edition’s concepts that it did little to clarify the situation until the release of Fiendish Codex I. 4th Edition changes all that.

    In 4th Edition, the Nine Hells are an astral dominion among other deific abodes in the Astral Sea (more on that in an upcoming Design & Development column). The resident deity is Asmodeus, who as an angel in primeval times, led an army of his fellows against his celestial master and murdered that god. Although Asmodeus gained divine might from his foul deed, he and his followers also suffered their victim’s dying curse. Under the power of that malediction, all the rebellious angels twisted in form and became devils. Worse still, the murdered god’s words transformed Asmodeus's dominion into a nightmarish place and bound the newborn devils to it. To this day, devils plot to escape their prison, weaving lies and corruption to ensure their eventual freedom and to seize even greater power.

    Asmodeus rules Hell with despotic pride, and all devils conform to his strict hierarchy or face destruction. Within the chain of command, lesser devils use whatever power they have to mimic their ultimate leader. Devils work to gain influence in the cosmos, especially among mortals in the world. They eagerly respond to any summons and readily form cleverly worded pacts. They plan and build to meet their needs, making and using all sorts of devices, tools, and weapons. A devil might be supernaturally potent, and it might possess incredible magic items, but its greatest assets are its shrewdly calculating mind and eternal patience. Devils want to impose a sort of order -- specifically theirs -- on the cosmos.

    Not so with demons.

    In the Abyss, which gapes like a festering wound in the landscape of the Elemental Tempest, demons teem, eternally divided among themselves simply by their insatiable lust for ruin. Legend says that the Chained God, Tharizdun, found a seed of evil in the young cosmos, and during the gods’ war with the primordials, he threw that seed into the Elemental Tempest. There, the evil seed despoiled all that came into contact with it (some say it tainted Tharizdun himself) and created the Abyss as it burned a hole in the very structure of the plane. Elemental beings that came too close to the Abyss became trapped and warped. Any desire they have turns to the longing to obliterate the gods, creation, and even one another. They became demons.

    Most demons are savage and fearless engines of annihilation. Although sometimes driven by unspeakable yearning or by horrifying demon lords to gather in groups, demons have no real organization and no singular aim. Demons don’t negotiate, and they build nothing lasting. Most use tooth and claw rather than artificial weapons. They care little or nothing for souls. Even the mightiest demon lords manipulate other demons by using threats, direct violence, or the promise of more destruction through affiliation. Although the lords of the Abyss that veteran D&D players know and love to hate still exist, no monolithic hierarchy supports any demon’s influence. Although a demon might want to destroy another creature and take that creature’s power, success only results in the winning demon using and squandering what it has seized. Demons have no regard for the responsibilities of authority, and they care little for keeping what they acquire. They’re forces of unmaking, and a universe under them would reflect the horror that is the Abyss, if that universe survived at all.

    What does a clearer distinction between the two major species of fiends mean for your game? If you need a devious fiend that cares about souls and works on long-term schemes, use a devil. However, wholesale slaughter, pointless suffering, and terrifying devastation call for a demon. A villain or even a player character might bargain with devils, but those who conjure demons do so only to wreak havoc on their enemies. In short, the unambiguous division of the fiends is another way 4th Edition makes the game easier to design for and to play.

    demoni su pokvareni elementali???
  10. Seeker

    Seeker semi-retired

    lol, instant demon: take one elemental (size doesnt matter) and corrupt a bit via the seed of evil
  11. Black_Raven

    Black_Raven drevni hejter

    ma posijao bih ja njima "the seed of evil" medju guzove...madafakeri kako unakazishe sve...sak maj madafakin sheet! XP
  12. Seeker

    Seeker semi-retired

    mislim ima savrsenog smisla. vratimo se mi nasem katolicizmu. a da u 4.5 demoni ce se szvati talibani

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